This is Part II of a two-part post on God's use of systems in our world. Part I was about the scientific aspects of these systems, while Part II will focus on the results of these systems in my theology. If you want to read Part I, click that blue text (or maybe just scroll up). If you want to meet every Zelda fan's dream girl, click that other blue text.
There's a theory that if we were able to gather and interpret enough data, we could predict EVERYTHING. The way molecules bounce in the air, how water would flow, how plants would grow, how animals would respond -- everything natural could be predicted with enough knowledge. Some even think human behavior could be anticipated.
Well -- and this is where I start to reach a bit -- God has that kind of knowledge. He both knows the systems entirely, and has all the data of how things are moving and how they are going to react and interract. I'm starting to wonder if God doesn't necessarily see the future (which of course He can), but that He can "predict" it because He just knows what's going on within His systems completely.
He didn't make a single prophecy/promise until after the fall. When Adam and Eve ate that fruit, God let the dust settle and then starts to explain what's going to happen, bit by bit. It's going to rain a lot for a while. I'm going to pick a family and start to show how this is going to work. You're going to periodically and predictably get pissed or get stupid and screw things up. I'm going to have to bail you out a bunch of times. Those ones are easy. But when he starts to get real specific, with things like this guy is going to be king for a while and then this country is going to overtake them and then this country will rise up and hey I'm here in human form!! I don't think He's looking into the future, watching what's happening, and then coming back to some prophets and giving them visions. I think He has absolutely all the possible information about what's going on right now, and with that information can tell what we're going to do in the future. He's got these systems that He fully understands.
I do the same thing, on a much smaller scale. I've already blogged (weird word) about how I try to predict conversations before they happen. I'm good at this. I am good at it because I understand the systems of conversation and I have knowledge of the people I will be talking with. It's nothing phenomenal, it's mostly neurotic. But I can do it. Why couldn't God do that on a grander scale?
This is why I don't take issue with the notion of pre-destination (it always comes to this, doesn't it?). People feel that because God knows what we are going to do before we do it, we don't really have any choice in what we do. I'd argue that I often know what someone is going to say before they say something, but I am not making them say it. Sometimes I am manipulating conversation in certain ways, but I can't crawl into my dad's head and force him to ask me about that Mariner game I went to, I just know that he is going to.
I like to give this example to explain my thinking on the subject: Think about a delivery man. Depending on how much information I have, I can predict how his day is going to look. If all I know that he is going to deliver some packages, I can't say too much. But if I know he has to deliver a dozen packages between 9:00am and 5:00pm, I can get an idea. Further more, if I know where those packages need to be delivered, I can start to get an idea of the routes he might take. If I know what traffic is like, and if I know the patterns the driver tends to follow when planning his routes, and if I know when he takes lunch, I can guess what his route will be with much more accuracy.
If I know when he arrives at work, what he does when he arrives at work, when he gets in his car, what speed he tends to drive at, the timing of the traffic lights, the patterns of congestion in the roads, when and where and what he likes to do for lunch, how long he chats with customers, if the customers are home, and if his car is gassed and maintained, I could be extremely accurate with the route my delivery man is taking, all while having ABSOLUTELY no control over what he is actually doing. Systems. If I can do this (and really, it's not that unreasonable, you probably do it with your family or friends all the time because you know them), of course God can do this with anything and everything, while still letting us choose.
This leads to one somewhat tangential conclusion that I'll mention real briefly. In the Gospels, something to the effect of "because Jesus knew the hearts of men" is stated several times, and everyone seems to think He is reading people's minds with His supernatural powers. Maybe He is. But, really, knowing that the Pharisees are plotting to kill Him doesn't require a great logical leap. I think He knows the system of the hearts of men. He simply can tell what they are thinking or what they want to do or are saying because people aren't that hard to figure out. It's very possible that Jesus can't read minds, seeing as how He had to give up a lot of his God-ness when He joined us on Earth. It's also very possible that He can. I don't know, and truthfully I don't think it matters, but I find it interesting.
Now, I am no Biblical scholar. And for all I know there are verses that explicitly state "God has seen the future and is telling us what will happen (but I'm pretty sure they say he "knows" the future, which is different and leaves room for my interpretation). It might say somewhere "Jesus totally read that dude's mind," but it's probably phrased more elegantly. If I've blasphemed anything, it is due to laziness and poor information, not by intention.
But, systems, man, we gotta be aware of these systems.
There's a theory that if we were able to gather and interpret enough data, we could predict EVERYTHING. The way molecules bounce in the air, how water would flow, how plants would grow, how animals would respond -- everything natural could be predicted with enough knowledge. Some even think human behavior could be anticipated.
Well -- and this is where I start to reach a bit -- God has that kind of knowledge. He both knows the systems entirely, and has all the data of how things are moving and how they are going to react and interract. I'm starting to wonder if God doesn't necessarily see the future (which of course He can), but that He can "predict" it because He just knows what's going on within His systems completely.
He didn't make a single prophecy/promise until after the fall. When Adam and Eve ate that fruit, God let the dust settle and then starts to explain what's going to happen, bit by bit. It's going to rain a lot for a while. I'm going to pick a family and start to show how this is going to work. You're going to periodically and predictably get pissed or get stupid and screw things up. I'm going to have to bail you out a bunch of times. Those ones are easy. But when he starts to get real specific, with things like this guy is going to be king for a while and then this country is going to overtake them and then this country will rise up and hey I'm here in human form!! I don't think He's looking into the future, watching what's happening, and then coming back to some prophets and giving them visions. I think He has absolutely all the possible information about what's going on right now, and with that information can tell what we're going to do in the future. He's got these systems that He fully understands.
I do the same thing, on a much smaller scale. I've already blogged (weird word) about how I try to predict conversations before they happen. I'm good at this. I am good at it because I understand the systems of conversation and I have knowledge of the people I will be talking with. It's nothing phenomenal, it's mostly neurotic. But I can do it. Why couldn't God do that on a grander scale?
This is why I don't take issue with the notion of pre-destination (it always comes to this, doesn't it?). People feel that because God knows what we are going to do before we do it, we don't really have any choice in what we do. I'd argue that I often know what someone is going to say before they say something, but I am not making them say it. Sometimes I am manipulating conversation in certain ways, but I can't crawl into my dad's head and force him to ask me about that Mariner game I went to, I just know that he is going to.
I like to give this example to explain my thinking on the subject: Think about a delivery man. Depending on how much information I have, I can predict how his day is going to look. If all I know that he is going to deliver some packages, I can't say too much. But if I know he has to deliver a dozen packages between 9:00am and 5:00pm, I can get an idea. Further more, if I know where those packages need to be delivered, I can start to get an idea of the routes he might take. If I know what traffic is like, and if I know the patterns the driver tends to follow when planning his routes, and if I know when he takes lunch, I can guess what his route will be with much more accuracy.
If I know when he arrives at work, what he does when he arrives at work, when he gets in his car, what speed he tends to drive at, the timing of the traffic lights, the patterns of congestion in the roads, when and where and what he likes to do for lunch, how long he chats with customers, if the customers are home, and if his car is gassed and maintained, I could be extremely accurate with the route my delivery man is taking, all while having ABSOLUTELY no control over what he is actually doing. Systems. If I can do this (and really, it's not that unreasonable, you probably do it with your family or friends all the time because you know them), of course God can do this with anything and everything, while still letting us choose.
This leads to one somewhat tangential conclusion that I'll mention real briefly. In the Gospels, something to the effect of "because Jesus knew the hearts of men" is stated several times, and everyone seems to think He is reading people's minds with His supernatural powers. Maybe He is. But, really, knowing that the Pharisees are plotting to kill Him doesn't require a great logical leap. I think He knows the system of the hearts of men. He simply can tell what they are thinking or what they want to do or are saying because people aren't that hard to figure out. It's very possible that Jesus can't read minds, seeing as how He had to give up a lot of his God-ness when He joined us on Earth. It's also very possible that He can. I don't know, and truthfully I don't think it matters, but I find it interesting.
Now, I am no Biblical scholar. And for all I know there are verses that explicitly state "God has seen the future and is telling us what will happen (but I'm pretty sure they say he "knows" the future, which is different and leaves room for my interpretation). It might say somewhere "Jesus totally read that dude's mind," but it's probably phrased more elegantly. If I've blasphemed anything, it is due to laziness and poor information, not by intention.
But, systems, man, we gotta be aware of these systems.
1 comment:
I think there's a lot about Jesus' power on earth we can't put together from what the Gospels say. One thing that I think we can say is that he used restraint when tempted to use His power in a way that didn't conform to His Father's will.
When Christ told Nathaniel, "I saw you under the fig tree", Nathaniel's reaction indicates that he's convinced of Jesus' identity as Messiah. When Jesus tells His disciples how to get a colt for Palm Sunday, and how to get a room for the Last Supper, he seems to have specific knowledge, not the conclusion of a statistical analysis (however sophisticated).
The reason predestination is such a difficult issue is because predestination is not only foresight or foreknowledge...it's God actually electing the elect. We react to this because we think that's a violation of the principle of free will. Yet the Bible teaches that both are valid...at the same time. I don't understand it. I think it's because I don't have the capacity to understand it, like the Trinity and some other heady doctrines. There is some faith involved, after all.
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